Rune Bags final stage...almost.

[Rune Giant]

Well, the bags are close to being done in the foam model stage, which we can pull the molds from. I have a feeling though that some of you like the idea of being able to carry a helmet in them, while some of you don't, and that's totally cool with me. After all, I want you guys and gals to be happy (within reason of course, and I can't make everyone happy this go-around).
So, I'm putting this poll up to see what the feelings are of helmet vs. non-helmet storage. With helmet storage, the bags are about 12 inches wide, just short of the width of the handlebars. Without, they'd come down to be a bit thinner...about 8 inches wide.

This will be up for three days, then it's off to make one final modification, or move on to production of unit #1.

[ETXRune]

rune_giant,
I like your idea of this poll. As I opted to carry my helmet, I thought, "what would be wrong with the extra space?" If the size could accommodate a helmet, the rider can opt to use or not use...plus if not used, there would be extra room for other things...I do know they would be a bit wider, but the functionality would be two fold..
My thoughts.

Frank (ETXRune)

[Dockery]

Although it wasn't an option in the poll, one way to get around storing the helmet is to incorporate a helmet lock. I really dislike the cable model that is standard with the rune.

If you could incorporate a helmet lock, then I would change my response to not needed.

Just a thought, might be too late to incorporate at this point.

[Runerod]

As far as I'm concerned the extra space for the helmet would be usefull, but my priority is that the bags should blend in well with the lines of the bike, like your initial pictures did. If the larger bags look a bit too bulky, then I'll go with the smaller size.
Two questions.....
What are your current plans for the turn signals
Are you ever going to offer a standard (top loading) bag, which I would prefer.

[ironmike]

I agree 100% with Frank. What's wrong with having the extra room? By the way, how do you vote? What do you click to cast your vote?

Iron Mike

[ironmike]

I figured it out and cast my vote. Thanks.

Iron Mike

[Rune Giant]

Well, the design as it stands will fit a helmet, and to me doesn't look too bulky, though as I see other bags, they are quite a bit sleeker (but squarer too). If we shaved off a few inches here and there, it wouldn't lose a lot of storage. Also, from the side view, the lines flow very nicely with the bike, and come pretty close to mimicking the tank, albeit a bit wider. If we shave that off a little, it would mimic the tank better, though losing the helmet storage. Though it might fit a half helmet just fine.
If we sell just enough of these (10 is the magic number), then I have every intention to come out with a smaller version, that is roughly 8 inches wide, same length as this, and a bit shorter, top loading.

Turn signals: Plans are horizontal, LED, around the back curve.

[logistics]

Would you mind throwing the pics of the two sizes back up in this thread?

[Rune Giant]

Sure, here you go...

These are just the templates that we're using:

http://www.covenant-studios.com/images/bagside-final.jpg
http://www.covenant-studios.com/images/bagtops-final.jpg


and the photoshop mockups of the big and smaller bags
http://www.covenant-studios.com/images/rune-bag-side-cherry-small.jpg
http://www.covenant-studios.com/images/runebag-mega-streamline.jpg
Though the big one now has that cut out on the front to make room for the reflector.

And the foam model:
http://www.covenant-studios.com/images/bagmodel_inplace3c.jpg
http://www.covenant-studios.com/images/bagmodelsidehighc.jpg

[ETXRune]

After seeing these again.....and rune_giant, they look great....you are slowly convincing me to get a set :D

I like the larger bags as they balance the bike much nicer than the 'small nuts' as some has already stated some time back...this bike needs BIG ONES. 8)

[Rune Giant]

Thanks Frank. :D

[Runerod]

Rune-giant Still more questions 8)
The front of the prototype looks a different shape to the cad drawing (and the solid red color drawing). It looks like it slopes backward, whereas the cad drawing is rounded at the front. Are they much different?

I like the 3 chrome bars in the front of one of the bags, will you be incorporating those? (is that the large bag profile btw?)

I, like many others, have removed the red side reflector (two minute job).
Are you making a cut out on the bag to fit around the refector on your rear fender? (as many of us wouldn't want that)

If these bags are quick change, then I'll probably get a set of small and large. Nothing's to good for my girl! :wink:

Still prefer the top loaders though :twisted:

Thanks again Rune-giant - keep up the good work :clap2: :eat1:

[RockyMtnRune]

I think the larger size that will accommodate a helmet will look way to bulky and be obnoxious, so I'm going to vote for the smaller size. It sounds like there would still be A LOT of space available in a smaller version. I do like the idea of something that would accommodate a helmet lock though. Even a loop that you could attach a small cable lock too would be great.

[logistics]

They look great! I also like the larger version. If you're going to add storage bags, they might as well be as functional as possible. The more storage space the better. What will the price be?

[Rune Giant]

Rune-giant Still more questions 8)
The front of the prototype looks a different shape to the cad drawing (and the solid red color drawing). It looks like it slopes backward, whereas the cad drawing is rounded at the front. Are they much different?

They photogrpah a bit different than the drawings (since the photos are orthographic...). As I was building my 3D model of the Rune, using the side and top views from Honda like those above, I had to keep making adjustments, since you can see the front tire in the side view, but not from the top. Also, a side view of the tank, lengthwise, is off from the top view.




I like the 3 chrome bars in the front of one of the bags, will you be incorporating those? (is that the large bag profile btw?)

Yes, I'd like to have them as well. Most likely we'll be offering that as an option (where they are mounted, not just glued on).



I, like many others, have removed the red side reflector (two minute job).
Are you making a cut out on the bag to fit around the refector on your rear fender? (as many of us wouldn't want that)


Good question. Yes, the bag for now has a small notch to make room for the reflector. But we can go with option b and ask people to remove the reflector (would make manufacturing easier too).




If these bags are quick change, then I'll probably get a set of small and large. Nothing's to good for my girl! :wink:

Well, quick change is a relative term. I'm designing these so they mount in a minimal amount of time (maybe half hour or so). The thing I don't like about quick remove bags is all the space between the fender and the bags. Looks sloppy, plus adds a lot of drag to a bike.



Still prefer the top loaders though :twisted:


The smaller ones will be top loading. These will be kinda sort of a mix between top and side loading (side door will be a hatch).


Thanks again Rune-giant - keep up the good work :clap2: :eat1:

Thanks!

[Rune Giant]

They look great! I also like the larger version. If you're going to add storage bags, they might as well be as functional as possible. The more storage space the better. What will the price be?

Thanks! Function and form are my two best friends.

I'm aiming at $1000 a set, $1100 or so for chrome accent, and maybe an $800 (or around there) price for non-painted bags for custom Runes.

[WIZ]

looks great! would like a set..... ttip.

[Rune Giant]

I'll be taking our model to the local dealership, who just received the blue rune they ordered, this week to make sure all the clearances are good (as great as having a fender is, there are things I still need to check). If all checks out, then I'll have the right bag made for prototyping with the hinge (looks like I found a really great spring hinge) and lock system. Also, it's hard to tell how big the bag really is until I see it with a whole Rune. I took a couple helmets I borrowed from some co-workers to compare size, clearances for that (one helmet, a Shoei, was bigger) and there's enough room...maybe enough to trim the depth of the bag. But before I do that I want to see how small the Rune makes the bag look.

I'm hoping to begin offering these for sale, on a one by one basis, by mid-November with about 4 weeks turnaround time (maybe less) per set.

And here's the cool part (at least for me...). The wife said I can get my Rune as soon as these start selling (!!).

Finally.

[asacuta]

rune_giant

I don't know how accounting rules work in the U.S., but in Canada, you'd have a strong argument for making the Rune a business expense. You need one to properly develop and market your bags and other future accessories.

[ETXRune]

asacuta,
I believe you have something here for rune_giant. I see vehicles all the time advertising products or as company vehicles. I am sure these are write-offs as business expenses. I can see the RUNE being just that for rune_giant.....who may have to take your advice and investigate this wonderful prospect. Kind of want me to begin something so that I can write mine off... :lol: :wink: :D

[Dragon Rider]

Only problem is that your business has to show a profit after X number of years, or the IRS considers it a hobby and goes back and redoes your taxes. :shock: :shock: no vasoline provided :oops:

I recall that its OK to have a huge loss, then some small profits.

[asacuta]

Wow, that's a pretty strict rule.

In Canada, there only has to be reasonable expectation of profit. The tax people would look at a number of things, but what they expect is a "yes" answer to the following question: Were your actions consistent with running a business, whether you made money or not? They'll look to see if you had a business plan, if you developed product (created designs, made prototypes, etc.), if you marketed your products (selling at rallies, showing the product on boards like this one, conducting surveys like the ones on this board, etc.), and ideally, if you actually had some sales. You don't have to do everything on their check list (which of course is longer than the examples I gave), but if you do a reasonable number, they're reasonably happy.

Here, those really worried how the tax people will treat the new business can ask Canada Revenue for an advance ruling.

[Rune Giant]

I'm well aware of business expenses, and being able to write stuff off. I've had one business in the past (Digital media company), and now have a video game company. So, this too will have to be a company to stay on the up and up, especially since some dealers are interested in selling the bags. And yes, as much as I realize that the bike can be a write-off, which is better than forking that money over to Uncle Sam, it's a case of getting the wife on board. Once we get some orders for the bags, then I'll be able to find the Rune in my garage (or tell the wife we need to right a nice big fat check over to the IRS). As far as the x number of years profit, it's actually more like, don't write off more than you're making. So, if I write off the bike each year, I can only maybe do that for three years (most companies don't reach black until year 3).
But, if I can keep the cost of these to so much, then sell them at a reasonable price, and get just enough orders, then come out with another product (smaller bags, with the cost of development being another write off), I'll be good. It's all about balance. From my past experience, it goes pretty much along the same lines as Asacuta mentioned.

[Rich Oas]

I do think 8" are too narrow so I must opt for the mega's. This bike....as marvelous as it is... does not look very big from the rear.... 8" bags will look narrower than the fender and therefore will detract from the looks...imHo.

[Rune Giant]

Well for now, I'm sticking with as wide as they currently are. Once I have the model side by side with the whole bike, I'll have a better idea of what I'm looking at, then decide to keep them as is, or shave down a skosh (so a helmet can still fit though), but not too narrow. The tank is pretty fat as it is and looks great.

R&D....

[jspool]

Hi,
When will you begin taking orders for the Rune bags?

[dog]

I've seen many a question to rune_giant and one keeps getting missed what is the price? How much will they be? Or roughly what will they cost? Asked several different ways but remains unanswered. Hmmmm Let me ask: What is a rough ideal for these bags??????? How much less will they be then the ones that don't fit anything but a bag of chips and some sunscreen? Or how much less will they be then the ugly ones I seen up in Chicago/Honda dealer? As for right offs,expenses and any other important info; one of our 'Rune Ownres'(Pardon the pun) rune_giant she can be a big help,I hate to offer up her name but I will as I've met her and she is very smart,smooth and on this Board. Donna I hope you got your ears on. Good luck. dog

[Windskin]

Dog,

See above. The approximate prices have been stated many times (including within this thread).

[ETXRune]

dog,
per rune_giant, posted 10/12/2006


Thanks! Function and form are my two best friends.

I'm aiming at $1000 a set, $1100 or so for chrome accent, and maybe an $800 (or around there) price for non-painted bags for custom Runes.

I know we are all wanting and waiting with ancticipation.....

[Rune Giant]

I've seen many a question to rune_giant and one keeps getting missed what is the price? How much will they be? Or roughly what will they cost? Asked several different ways but remains unanswered. Hmmmm Let me ask: What is a rough ideal for these bags??????? How much less will they be then the ones that don't fit anything but a bag of chips and some sunscreen? Or how much less will they be then the ugly ones I seen up in Chicago/Honda dealer? As for right offs,expenses and any other important info; one of our 'Rune Ownres'(Pardon the pun) rune_giant she can be a big help,I hate to offer up her name but I will as I've met her and she is very smart,smooth and on this Board. Donna I hope you got your ears on. Good luck. dog

Dude. You gotta be kidding, right? I've mentioned in previous posts my target idea for the price, more than once (thanks guys..):


Thanks! Function and form are my two best friends.

I'm aiming at $1000 a set, $1100 or so for chrome accent, and maybe an $800 (or around there) price for non-painted bags for custom Runes.

So. About $1000...

If you ask again there will be a $200 surcharge...:P

As far as when I'll be taking orders, not until I have the first set made. I'm aiming for those to be done 1st week of November, if not shortly after (I want to make sure these are perfect first, only fair to you and me). Photograph them, hopefully be ready for orders mid-November. Personally, I believe in quality vs. quantity.

[Rune Giant]

Btw, anyone know how much paint it takes for the tank?

[jspool]

Thanks, I can appreciate that.

[Rune Giant]

Huh?

I was asking if anyone has any idea how much paint it takes to paint something like the tank on the Rune. Being it's a 3 step process (or is it only two...Color-rite shows a color and a base, but nothing else except for a clear coat) for the blue or red, would I need a gallon of each layer, or half a gallon?

[Runerod]

Rune-giant, I don't know how much paint is needed for a tank , sorry.
However I understand that the Burple color is significantly more expensive to paint than the others (according to Corbin), so you may end up having to charge Burple owners more :shock: :twisted: ( or us other colors will have to subsidize them :x ).
No problem to me, I'll be ordering primer :wink:

[dog]

Yea if I get them bags I'll pay the surcharge..........Thnx Nice price too!

[asacuta]

rune_giant

vtxoak (who is on this board) paints bikes, so he should know. Just in case he doesn't see this thread, maybe you could send him a private message.

Based on my limited experience painting cars and tractors (no jokes here), I'd guess you shouldn't need much more than a cup per layer to paint a tank, a pint per layer tops. You'll add reducer to the paint at about a 1:1 ratio, so a little paint should go a long way.

[dog]

Absolutely Right! Repeat then hit with clearcoat a few times.

[Rune Giant]

Thanks guys.

I'll hit up VTXOak too. I figured it was about a cup or so per layer (on Monster garage, the guy usually mixes what seems like a cup of paint for the whole car).

Just trying to get budget figured out for how much paint to buy.

[04rune]

Call Calif corbin, Giovanni, sent me pics of new bags, price around 1499.00. The ones I saw are not painted and look "Different". May take some getting used to. :?

[NC Rune]

Storage for a full face helmet would be good. Just my opinion.

[Rune Giant]

Already taken care of. :)

I borrowed two helmets from some co-workers, one helmet being average size, the other a bit bigger. Lots of room for either, as well as a jacket, riding pants (I see some guys wear nylon or something else over their slacks), change of shoes, laptop bag, groceries (in case the missus wants you to bring stuff home).

[jspool]

Any updates on production?

[WIZ]

it takes 1/2 pint to paint the gas tank in illusion blue & it is a three step process in the illusion blue,,,,,,, oh and i might add for everyone that is the only color worth looking at anyway.......... just kidding ttip out.
reason for only 1/2 pint that it comes in a two step color kit,then sray with clear. one 1/2 pint kit will paint two coats each,clear is cheap compared to oem paint.painted two half helmets 2 coats each,ten coats clear,still have enough left for one more half helmet.....

[Rich Oas]

I am still anxious to see the finished bags...I am a bit concerned about what seems to be escalating prices. I thought originally the price stated was $800....then I believe a poster on this this board ...out of the blue...antied up the price by saying he/she would gladly pay $1000...suddenly that was the new base price... and $800 was for a bare bones unpainted bag. During the off season (way up north) I don't read all the posts so I am not sure what prompted whoever it was to up the price ... Don't get me wrong I do not think $1000 is too much for a well designed quality bag....but the pricing now as I understand it is $800 unpainted...$1000 plain painted...$1000 Plus for the chrome highlite ($1200???). Will there now be extra for mounting hardware???wiring harness??? or whatever??? I think the Corbin bag is a bit gaudy but when I look at all that appears to be on it...for $1400- $1600 (so I've heard)....I do believe $1000 with all the ginger bread on it is a good price for the RG bags. It does seem that the unveiling of the Corbin bag has stopped the escalating price and brought this all back to reality.... which seemed to be climbing every time I view this board... needed to get this off my chest... :chatter:

But thanks RG for getting the bags off the ground... It seems pretty obvious that Corbin was not at all interested until you began this saga...I will probably still purchase a set but am...as I stated.. concerned that we don't continue to climb the pricing stairway...at some point I will decide live with my T bag and duffle bag on my Corbin Rumble seat and ride the roads as I currently do.... and forget about hard bags all together.

[asacuta]

Sorry Rich, that was probably me, where I said in a previous post:


I've been waiting for rune_giant to finish his bags, and because too many cooks can ruin the meal, I've avoided commenting. So far, things are progressing well, but one comment that seems to crop up is that cost is an issue. Here's my 2 cents on cost:

For me, cost isn't a big issue if the bags look right; the hardware is first rate; fit and finish are impeccable. Obviously, I'm not going to pay $5000 for a set of bags, but I'm also not going to pay $1000 for a set of bags if they aren't up to Rune standards. $1000 for first-rate bags would be great, but if I had to pay $2000 to $3000 to get something that looks like it belongs on the bike, that's what I would do.

Rune_giant graciously offered to charge Canadians these higher prices while keeping prices in line for U.S. residents. :cry:

Realistically, $1000 bags that look good on a $20k bike are a steal. If you don't believe me, see how much Honda wants for a set of GoldWing bags.

[Rune Giant]

Any updates on production?

We'll be skinning the one bag (right side) this week with fibreglass to pull the mold, then making the 1st prototype shortly after. Once that's figured out, then we can make a left one in about a week. I want to have prototypes to mount and show at the Long Beach show. So, aside from the Thanksgiving weekend killing my schedule, things are moving along.

[Rune Giant]

I am still anxious to see the finished bags...I am a bit concerned about what seems to be escalating prices. I thought originally the price stated was $800....then I believe a poster on this this board ...out of the blue...antied up the price by saying he/she would gladly pay $1000...suddenly that was the new base price... and $800 was for a bare bones unpainted bag. During the off season (way up north) I don't read all the posts so I am not sure what prompted whoever it was to up the price ... Don't get me wrong I do not think $1000 is too much for a well designed quality bag....but the pricing now as I understand it is $800 unpainted...$1000 plain painted...$1000 Plus for the chrome highlite ($1200???). Will there now be extra for mounting hardware???wiring harness??? or whatever??? I think the Corbin bag is a bit gaudy but when I look at all that appears to be on it...for $1400- $1600 (so I've heard)....I do believe $1000 with all the ginger bread on it is a good price for the RG bags. It does seem that the unveiling of the Corbin bag has stopped the escalating price and brought this all back to reality.... which seemed to be climbing every time I view this board... needed to get this off my chest... :chatter:

But thanks RG for getting the bags off the ground... It seems pretty obvious that Corbin was not at all interested until you began this saga...I will probably still purchase a set but am...as I stated.. concerned that we don't continue to climb the pricing stairway...at some point I will decide live with my T bag and duffle bag on my Corbin Rumble seat and ride the roads as I currently do.... and forget about hard bags all together.

Hey Rich, only the Canadians have to pay extra, due to the included Mayonaise jar holders... :wink:

Seriously though, I really want to stay in the $800 to $1000 dollar range. Keep in mind though that if you go for the really cool option of remote control open, that will bump up the price a bit. How much I don't know, since I don't have a handle on prices for those parts and system. If I sell them direct, then keeping the bags with chrome or not (no remote) at the $800-$1000 should be no problem. Corbin's will probably be in line with the Smuggler...$1400 I'm guessing, since they're not going to be fiberglass, and making a Rotoform mold and tooling is spendy. In other words, Corbin probably won't be making anything on their bags.

If I sell through a dealer, then the price might spike a little. I'm not going to be out to gouge anyone, and plan on being as fair as possible on the price. I figured when some people said they'd be willing to spend a grand, then we'll do the best we can to give them their money's worth.

Greg aka rune_giant.