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Ouch! That's weak, we need to do something about that! There is no reason that bike shouldn't put out 100+. Did you have it dynoed prior to installing the K&N?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Hogslayer,
nope, no test with the restrictive airbox with its vacuum line modulated trapdoor for air.

The dyno test was only $50. No convenient dynos here in the Charleston SC area. Their comment was that there is a big difference between "brochure HP" and "rear wheel HP"........ I was using 93 octane gas and synthetic oil in the crankcase and differential... so my bike is as optimum as possible. But let's be real: when I rode the 7.5 hours back to SC from Wash DC.... I hauled ass to 130+ many times. I had no problem zipping up waay past speeds that would have buried me in jail for speeding with the HP that the Rune has right now. The Chantilly shop did have a compelling offer to add a nitrous bottle. They said with the Rune, we would get a 30HP boost with nitrous, and, our intake box with the K&N filter would be easy to add the gas line.
 

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Torque

So what was the torque at the rear wheel.

94 HP is a good number, its 2 above my VTX 1800 and to tell the truth 90+ HP is plenty on machine in this weight range. If you think about it the HP to weight ratio is pretty darn good at better than 9pounds/hp where most high performance cars are in the 11pounds/hp
 

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Yep I saw it

after I asked about he torque numbers.

My VTX pulls 92 HP and 107 Pound/feet of torque but I'd swear that the Rune feels faster off the line and at top end.

Do you have the fuel ratio chart, I'd like to see what the beast does during the run up.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I dont know what a fuel ratio chart is. the only other printout that I saw but did not get was relevant for carburetor engines, not fuel injected. But that chart did show the rune ran rich. It was also very "smooth" in all the performance curves.
 

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Don't forget that different dyno's will give totally different readings. The only way to truely get an idea is to either see several different dyno readings of each model to get an overall rough guide , or put both bikes on the same dyno. For instance I believe Danny was given a dyno figure of 107 bhp for his Rune with the same mods.
:wink:
 

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Rune HP

Ken, you state that the dyno showed the Rune to be running rich....which I gather most Runes are ..explains the residue on the pipes on most bikes... and also could explain why the residue got increasingly heavier as my big black smoke issue gradually worsened over 100 miles or so to a totally flooded shutdown back a month or so ago. Now for my question...to anyone who wishes to chew on it... Would running a bit leaner (actually properly balanced) improve HP and Torque? Is there a certain fixed volume of air/fuel mixture going to the cylinder so if more fuel goes in you logically get less air? and therefore less HP and Torque?.... Thus if we were not (ALL) running rich, would it be like adding a K&N filter without actually adding it. I ask this for a reason...After my big black smoke repair a while back, I am now running what I assume to be leaner because...I have a fraction of the residue and my mileage has increased from 33-38 before to what seems to be a steady 39+ now.....and altho it may all be in my head... my Rune seems to have much more zip now..... I have been reluctant to bring this up because I do not know exactly what was done during the repair and don't know if the effect I am seeing will be long term.... but I have 2000 plus miles since "big black smoke" with a big smile on my face... and little residue on my pipes....
 

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Swamp Rat
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I want more!

I have absolutely no good reason to want more horsepower and torque.

When I’m aboard the Rune I have every confidence that with a twist of the wrist I will have all the immediate performance anyone with good common sense could hope for. The Rune delivers what I want with reserve to spare.

Number six of the questions I am most often asked, after; What is it? Is it a Harley? Did you do this yourself? How much did it cost? How heavy is it? ………..is What’s the horsepower? (If they asked the above second question I tell then 145 HP; I’m dealing with an idiot and they will believe $50,000.00 in answer to question four).

Even though I have no need for more HP, I want it. Frankly I don’t think I’ve noticed any difference in power since having the K & N filter installed. That is not say there isn’t more it’s just that I haven’t noticed it, and I ride the Rune as it was made to be run. This past Sunday I had a north bound sheriffs’ deputy shake his finger at me on my south bound Rune. It was a divided highway so I had no fear.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
The only place I saw in the svc manual to do anything to the fuel mixture would be to lower the injection fuel pressure....but bikes are usually set up to run rich rather than lean because when you run lean you detonate and knock. If we were all little old ladies like SiteData :wink: and only behaved ourselves 100% of the time, we could get by with "lean." Another way to burn more of the rich gas that is present is to advance the spark. That is where the aftermarket modules come in to tailor the ignition advance curve for the individual bike.

I wish Honda had a Runengineer who could drop by our Forum and discuss this minor, trivial, tempest in a teapot issue. :roll: 14,000 miles this week on my Rune!
 

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Running Lean

So...could running lean ruin my Rune? If this is the case, I am convinced I am running lean and will ask the dealer to get me back where the bike was set up prior to the "big black smoke" issue. I am confident he can...
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
You have a knock sensor that is supposed to minimize knock, which can happen when you are either too lean, demanding "too much" performance, low octane gas, excessive spark advance. Not a simple answer. Looking at the spark plugs will help you determine if it is too lean/too hot. I would like to run a tiny bit leaner than I am now.
 

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A quick comment. In order to pass the emissions Honda claims these bikes (GL and Rune) do, which I believe is 2008+ standards, they should run lean as hell. In fact, most bikes are running already too lean today, causing rideability problems like surging, running too hot, etc.
Having said that, even with ultra-lean settings, when engines are cold, they will ALWAYS run rich. This means sooty exhausts over time (check your car), so this is not a good way to measure if your bike runs lean or rich. The only way to find out is with an EGA (exhaust gas analyzer).

Unfortunatley, Honda screwed something on the change from the wing's 2 TBs to the Rune's 6. Plus they manage to loose power in the process: wing's 118 hp and 125 ft/lb translate to 104 hp and 110 ft/lb at the wheel. Oh well, at least I agree a cruiser doesn't need that much power. I rode a V-rod at a rally the other day, and it honestly runs like a scalded cat (don't even think about racing one; it matches the Rocket III), but with its weird riding position, I felt uncomfortable accelerating that hard.

Good day people.
 

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Swamp Rat
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Indignation abounds

Now you look here Ken.

That crack about me being a “little old lady” is uncalled for, and a wee bit assumptions on your part I might add.

Just because I suffer from hot flashes, night sweets, cold chills and administer self injected estrogen shots, it does not necessarily follow that I’m little.
 

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Air Quality Standard

Let me throw in my 2 cents (hey what ever happened to the cent symbol) about running lean. The CAB (California Air Board) 2008 standard is set to reduce overall emissions with special emphasis on hydrocarbons and particulates, the test is run at 2500 RPM which is at the bottom end of the power curves for most motorcycles and especially the Rune. The best way to get low hydrocarbon readings is to run the engine lean (that means lots of oxygen to more fully oxidize (burn) the fuel). OK, still following me; what this means is that most of todays motorcycles (and in many cases cars) run lean at low RPM and run rich at high RPM. Since we most likely run at the 3000 RPM range or higher we are running more rich than lean. If you think this is confusing what until the Air Board figures out how manufacturers are beating the numbers and apply the low thresholds at high RPM in the future. The only saving grace is that motor manufacturers know how to make engines that can run lean, provide power and torque.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
So, rich at the higher rpms just begs to have a shot of Nitrous in that range. No need to inject more fuel. Just use up the extra that is already there. When I come back from Iraq this second time, I will put Nitrous on my Black Rune, and possibly, buy another stock Rune .
 

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KenCrawleySC said:
So, rich at the higher rpms just begs to have a shot of Nitrous in that range. No need to inject more fuel. Just use up the extra that is already there. When I come back from Iraq this second time, I will put Nitrous on my Black Rune, and possibly, buy another stock Rune .
maybe a little 35 dry shot?
 
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