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Just changed the final-drive oil in my 2005 Rune at 1500 km. The stuff I drained was cloudy grey. The stuff I added (Castrol Syntec) was clear yellow. Does the factory fill contain moly, and if so, should I add moly to the new fluid?

Al
 

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Discussion Starter #2
An update on the final-drive oil.

My Honda dealer says factory fill includes a moly additive, and that is why Honda recommends the oil stay in the bike for 38,000 km. At the first change, the moly isn't needed anymore, and you can use straight gear oil. Since I changed the oil at only 1500 km, the dealer gave me some of the additive to put in the final drive. It is a grey paste that is supposed to emulsify in the oil.
 

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If you go into the archives you will see we discussed the final drive a while back. Yes, add moly. I add 1oz of Dow Corning Molykote Gearguard M as part of the 4oz of final drive oil.

You should let us know how much magnetic goo was on the drain magnet.
At 3 or 5, i need to check, thousand miles, I had a pencil eraser amount of goo. Then (continuing to use Moly), at 25,000 miles there was NO goo on the magnet. I will be changing the rear end again later this summer, probably about 40,000 miles.



Ken
(hmm, cant remember my mileage... something near 34,000 miles)
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I also had about a pencil eraser size amount of goo on the magnet.

I'm worried about using high concentrations of Molykote M Gear Oil Additive. Here is what the Molykote product sheet says:

The optimum concentrations of
Dow Corning M Gear Oil Additive as
an additive to petroleum-based
lubricants varies in different applications.
The following guidelines
are suggested:
Gears – 5 to 10 percent by volume,
depending on loads, speeds and
condition of equipment. For best
running-in results, Dow Corning M
Gear Oil Additive and Dow Corning
G-n Metal Assembly Spray or
Dow Corning G-n Metal Assembly
Paste should be applied initially on
the gear teeth before start-up.

The guy at Dow Corning tech support recommended a concentration of 3%. He said not to exceed 5%. At 3%, you should add 3.75 ml to the 125 ml capacity of the final drive.

I'm also worried about using this additive with synthetic gear oil. Again, the product sheet says the following:

Dow Corning M Gear Oil Additive is
not recommended for addition to
nonflammable or fire-resistant
hydraulic fluids, or other synthetic
fluids such as polyglycols, diesters
or silicones.

Maybe someone with a background in chemistry can tell me if synthentic gear oil qualifies as one of the not-recommended fluids.
 

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Why not ask the rep. which moly product is compatible with diester oils?

Since the concentration of the oil base is so thin compared to the rest I noted it just needs to be shaken. It does not settle out.

In the meanwhile.....Next rear drive change I will use less--and report on what amount of wear "goo" I get.

I started using this Molykote back in 1978 with Mobil 1 synthetic car oils. I am on my 4th quart of the stuff in 25+ years.

Ken
 

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asacuta said:
An update on the final-drive oil.

My Honda dealer says factory fill includes a moly additive, and that is why Honda recommends the oil stay in the bike for 38,000 km. At the first change, the moly isn't needed anymore, and you can use straight gear oil. Since I changed the oil at only 1500 km, the dealer gave me some of the additive to put in the final drive. It is a grey paste that is supposed to emulsify in the oil.
It isn't JUST an additive; the factory also paints Moly 60 on the gears during assembly. THAT is why Honda wants the oil to stay in the hub until the first recommended service interval (24k miles / 38k km)
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I had a close look at the gears when I changed the oil. There was no visible Moly-60 coating remaining, and the old fluid was cloudy grey, indicating most of the Moly 60 ended up in the oil, not on the gears. I would expect that any moly left on the gears is microscopically thin, and this layer would not be substantially affected by changing the oil, especially when moly has been added to the new oil. This is consistent with my previous use of Molykote G-n paste as an assembly lube. After a few hundred clicks, most of the paste ends up in the oil, not on the part.

In any event, as David points out, the prudent thing to do is leave the oil in until the Honda-recommended change interval.
 

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Now that I got the 1 pound tin of Moly powder (1.5 micron size), the incompatibility issue of the carrier oil is a moot point. I will add the dry powder to the drive oil and shake. At the wear points, a lucky Moly glob will get burnished into the metal... as it should be.

I will never be happy. I just found out that titaniumdisulfide is available...at 4x the cost of molybdenumdisulfide.. And, its coefficient of friction is less than Moly.

Ken
 

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reply to asacuta from a couple posts back

I'm also worried about using this additive with synthetic gear oil. Again, the product sheet says the following:

Dow Corning M Gear Oil Additive is
not recommended for addition to
nonflammable or fire-resistant
hydraulic fluids, or other synthetic
fluids such as polyglycols, diesters
or silicones.

Maybe someone with a background in chemistry can tell me if synthentic gear oil qualifies as one of the not-recommended fluids.


I just knew that my degree in chemistry would be useful one of these days...

regular oils and synthetic oils are NOT included in the 4 mentioned non recommended types of compounds. Hydraulic fluids are somewhat close chemically to synthetic oils, but have different molecules attached to the main chain
 

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I guess what I want to make sure eveyone gets is that the final drive oil is going to be cloudy / murky / gray. It IS the Moly that is in the fluid that does this, and yes the fluid will wash the paste off the gears, but it is still IN the fluid to help the gear wear.

So, unless you have a compelling reason for changing the final drive fluid - LEAVE IT IN THERE for the first 24,000 miles.
 
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