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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
(I know this should go on the Tech board...but I'll put a post there too. But i wanted to share this with the MAXIMUM amount of members...so i put it here on the General board also.)

Yes...I'm afraid to say, i have joined the ranks of the dreaded "thick black smoke"...and bike running like crap. It happened when i least expected it. I was on another ride today. Just like yesterday, weather was perfect...mid 70s and sunny. i rode 150 miles yesterday. Had ridden about 100 miles today when it happened. Had washed the bike last night (though i really don't think that had anything to do with it...i've washed the bike MANY, MANY times before without incidence). But it ran GREAT for the first 100 miles. Always started and ran fine. But suddenly....after about 60 miles of continuous riding with no problems....as i decelerated coming to a stop sign...it started running rough...and acted like it wanted to die. Then when i got to the stop sign and pulled in the clutch..it did die. My wife, who was riding behind me...said it sounded like crap...and smoke was bellowing out of it. I restarted it...reved it a few times...hoped it would go away. Once under way....it ran....but not smoothly. I rode it home another 20 or so miles. but every time i came to a light or stop sign...it wanted to die. if you reved it while at the stop sign...black smoke poured out. if you didn't rev it...it died. It started back up every time...but always ran rough and blew smoke. When i got home...exhaust were solid BLACK on the rear from the soot. Not good. Wife said it was even smoking black smoke going down the hiway at 65.

So ...it sounds like i have the throttle sensor problem...or whatever it was. I will look it up on the Tech board. I'll take the bike in Tuesday. I hope i can ride it the 25 miles into town. Lots of hiway speed riding ...which probably will be ok. But it's the stop lights I'm worried about...or if it starts running even worse. I'm assuming it's just running real rich...thus the soot?

Anyway, my bike (bought Aug 03)...with just under 10k miles...has the dreaded problem several others have reported here! Another one 'bites the dust'. i just hope they fix her quickly...and....DON'T SCRATCH ANYTHING UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I know they can get it fixed under warranty...i just worry about them scratching stuff up when they work on it.

I'll keep you folks posted on what happens.
 

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Another TBS!?!

Hmmmm, sorry to hear you've got a dose of the TBS, Redvalk.
This is getting a little worrying, the way it just hits out of the blue. I do one or two trips around Europe each year and I'd hate for this to happen a few thoudsand miles from home, in a foriegn country.
I've been left stranded in Paris before on an Electraglide ( yep I should have known better) and it ain't fun. I never though I'd have reliability worries on a Honda though.
Was it starting to run rougher and rougher as you rode on, as the others found with the TBS problem? :?
This puzzling link with water ( after washing or riding in the rain ) seem to be here again, makes you wonder if it's only coincidence or not.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
yes....it does seem to get a little worse as you continue to ride more. If i hit it hard...and accelerated up to say 90...it ran pretty good. but towards the last few miles home on the hiway....if i just held a steady throttle at about 60-65...you could feel it running rough...sort of lurching once in a while...not smooth. And EVERY time you stopped....as you coasted down...downshifting thru the gears...you could tell it wanted to die. And as soon as i pulled in the clutch to stop...it would die. It would start back up....black smoke just blowing out like mad....and if you kept revving it...it would run...though real rough. Sounded like it was running on 3 or 4 cylinders.

That's why i'm concerned about trying to ride it in 25 miles to my dealer. I'm not 100% sure it will make it. On the Chat board last night, Normcarp suggested i pull the plugs and clean them....and then i could probably make it in to the dealer?

If i have to...i have a trailer. Might be best not to take chances. Last time it stalled...as i was turning onto the road i live on...it actually stalled while i was still moving at slow speed....and i thought if i dumped the clutch...since i was underway...it would start back up. NOPE....it LUNGED to an abrupt stop. Thank goodness i'm pretty strong and an experienced rider...so i was able to deal with the sudden unexpected abrupt stop!
 

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Looking thru the past comments about this, it seems the bike just runs rougher and rougher untill it doesn't run at all. So it might be wise to trailer it to the dealer. If it is the TPS at fault, then the plugs will foul again in no time.
I'll be following your progess closely on this one Redvalk, like I said, you've got me a bit nervous now. This problem is starting to sound a little too common. Call me paranoid but I'm starting to see visions of this happening to my bike in somewhere like the Czech republic, with a distinct lack of Honda dealers on hand. Also breaking down where no-one speaks any English is... er.... an interesting holiday experience I'd rather not add to my collection.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
yes...i was one of the ones who early on said it didn't seem to be a big thing...though i did say it was worth watching. By that...i mean i didn't think many folks were experiencing it...so it didn't seem like an 'epidemic'...per say. Well...the number of bikes experiencing this are still pretty few, but i just joined that small 'select/elite' group.

it don't feel so good to be 'special' :cry:
 

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Tim,

Sorry to hear about your troubles, at least with the info from this board your can go to the dealer, and have a answer to "we haven't heard of any problems...... "
 

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black smoke

Hi Runeroad,
travelling throught europe make the insurance "Europe assistence"
they take care of you and your bike, when necessary the bike will be returned to your residence. j already had that assistence and j may confirm it works.
about Italy we have the best walk assistence in europe by MarioMoto.
www.mariomoto.it.
concerning the problem j would be happy to have some further information from Tim about this problem that seems to be the most serious on the Rune.
j hope nothing of serious but experience is necessary.
ciao from italy
Hannibal
 

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ops Runerod (sorry)

Tim one question. could be possible you filled the tank with some diesel fuel??
j had some problems surely due to a very bad gasoline, it was necessary to fill the tank twice before the engine restarted to work properly.
ciao
Hannibal
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
nope hannibal...i wish it were something that silly! no...i had filled it ....with the same gas my wife filled with at our last stop. We always refill together. ALways fill her bike first, then hand me the nozzle and i fill. Always use 93 octane. And my bike ran fine on that gas for about 80 miles or more. Then...suddenly....it started. this is the same way all the others with the throttle body sensor issues have happened. When you least expect it. I mean...bike ran perfectly.....and then suddenly....poof! Running very rich. It's the old Throttle sensor, map sensor, oxygen sensor...whatever Honda calls it!!!!
 

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Red,
Good luck.
We all constantly wash our bikes. So, that is not the initializing situation.
Find out exactly what component is bad and let's see if we can order replacements for our "long trip" kits. And I don't mean having to get the entire casting hardware junk. Just the essential gizmo.

I am in Denver at the airport, so I dont have my service manual. Is the TBS a variable resistor, trouble shot with a resistance range over a mechanical position sensor or lever, or is it a barometric pressure sensor that got unsprung?

This has happened regardless of what air filter/airbox configuration we have.

I have 24,000+ miles on mine <fingers crossed>

What VIN #s have had this problem? Is there a specific range in the serial numbers?

Who has the highest mileage with no TBS to date??? Me?? :wink:

We know the Rune runs rich anyway. It would be nice if Honda could tweak them a skoche leaner.

ken
 

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Smoke

Sorry to hear about that, Tim....mine has just over 3,000 miles.....no problems yet except bad battery.

Keep us posted......

Tom
 

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Big Black Smoke

Sorry to hear you've joined Donna and me in the elite club. I too am one of the select few who have experienced the "Big Black Smoke " issue. My bike was in the shop for 10 days near the end of August... you can see my posts in the Tech Board "Big Black Smoke " area. While going thru the trouble shooting iterations and working with Honda to decide what to do with my bike, the service folks at my dealership did a bit of experimenting on their own. Altho I am still not sure exactly what they did, they took a part from a dirt racing bike because it looked and spec'd out as the same as the Rune's. Altho I was under the impression that it had something to do with what I understood to be a fuel sending unit.... I am not sure. Anyway..whatever they did, it fixed the problem (without replacing the throttle bodies). I had 7500 miles on it at the time.. I now have almost 12,000. My gas mileage improved to around 40mpg, power seemed better and I had little soot on the pipes...less than when it was new...I figured it was running leaner (DUH!) and was much better than even when it was new. I did continue to see a bit heavier soot on COLD starts (temp-wise). Now for the "new" news...Got a call from dealer late last week... I have to bring the bike to them today. I am told Honda wants them to replace the throttle bodies. I know a person should never assume but the fact that Honda is having them replace the throttle bodies seems to be an indication that they do know there is an issue with this part. I originally told my dealer that Honda would change the dealers fix (whatever they did) over my dead body because it was running so well....but I did notice a very subtle and gradual increase in soot as my riding season came to an end..I attributed it to the cold and was beginning to think maybe this is a warm climate bike.... Most of my riding this year was in temps between 45F and 70F...very little really warm weather. Anyway I am now going to have the throttle body replacement thing and won't know the results until I can ride in the spring.... :shock: My bike is number 528... I love this bike!!!!! 8)
 

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Big Black Smoke

Probably totally unrelated but after my initial BBS issue ...it seemed to me that the throttle was not nearly as responsive as it was prior to this.....almost like there was some play in the throttle that wasn't there before. Maybe I am just getting used to having all that torque and the throttle doesn't seem as touchy... just another added observation.
 

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Rich, if at all possible could you quiz the mechanics a little more on the part from the off road bike that they used -that made your bike run so well. The model and part number would be good.
This would be usefull for understanding our Rune engines a bit more. Both in relation to this problem, and as a performance aid to correct the standard rich fueling.
 

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Rich, check your throttle play adjuster. The mechs might have forgot to readjust after the repair.

Has anyone contacted the Rune section at Honda? This might be a RECALL issue. If the people that have had this problem would send me
bike info, VIN, mileage when it occured, octane of fuel used, and any other info that might be useful I'll contact Honda. They need to be aware of this issue.
 

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BBS

I dropped my Rune off last evening at my dealer to have the new throttle body manifold put on... I asked them to show me the new one which they did... quite impressive... I then asked what it was they had done to "temporarily fix" the problem I had in August. The service guy pointed at the throttle position sensor. The sensor is all part of the throttle body assembly and can't come off... but to get me running in August they were able to take one that spec'd the same as the Rune off a Honda fuel injected dirt racing bike. He had to be creative in getting the bad one off and putting the new one on but once replaced, the problem was immediately resolved. Evidently when the problem began, the original throttle position sensor had suddenly stopped sending the right signal to the throttle body and was causing extra gas to flood the cylinders....hence BBS... I am assuming that the positioning of the throttle position sensor is so crtical that they don't want anyone playing with it...therefore they made it a non interchangeable part. Now...and I am again assuming... that Honda would NOT take my bike back and do all this warranty work and replace the entire throttle body manifold without being very confident that this position sensor will now maintain its integrity....especially knowing I was very happy with the fix my dealer performed in August. So... I guess you could say that unless Honda comes clean and says there were just a few bad sensors in a few bikes and they have now pinned down the location of those bikes and will recall them for throttle body replacement... we are all riding a time bomb that may or may not explode. I would hope Honda would not knowingly leave us out here to go down one at a time...and all the hassles breaking down can cause. Working in a manufacturing situation I do understand that you could have 3 or 4 out of 3000 parts be defective... I do hope this is the case and that all the rest of my Rune riding companions don't have to experience this....or at least as few as possible. So I guess in a nutshell... very early on (it may have been Donna's post) the throttle position sensor was identified as the culprit.... what my dealer did and how the problem was fixed seems to verify that... I hope this post is coherent... I seem to have been rambling....
 

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BBS

And I should have stated....Those of us that have had this problem seem to all have had the same symptoms....After reading about Donna's problem... I wanted do think it was something else when it was happening to my bike... turns out it was exactly the same ... throttle position sensor. So ... if you start to see the symptoms.. get to your dealer immediatley or you will find yourself stuck on the highway some dark and rainy night in an area with no cell phone signal.... My very first indication was my gas mileage dropped from around 38mpg to about 30mpg. Although the soot buildup had increased I hadn't really noticed it until the gas mileage thing. I had 60 miles from the time I recognized the problem (gas mileage and 1st stall on low revs) to the gradual and final meltdown. Based on the gas mileage issue, I think I drove a total of about 160 miles or so from the actual onset of the problem. Hope this stuff is helpful.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
dropped my bike off yesterday to begin the BBS 'fix'. I told them about the TPS and throttle body issue...and the others on this board that have had the same problem. they said it made perfect sense. Of course, they will begin checking it out with diagnostics today....to confirm the actual problem.

They also pointed out i may have scuffed up my chrome drive shaft cover when i wiped the heavy soot off of it. I may have put some swirls in the chrome? They said don't worry...they'd clean it up...and if it doesn't come clean and look perfect, they'll replace the chrome cover under warranty related to the soot problem. I have a VERY GOOD dealer. They'll take care of me.

HS....my VIN is 1HFSC53054A001062, and i had 9573 miles on my Rune when i turned it in to the dealer....so it occured at about 9550 miles. NEVER any sign of problems with THIS Rune before. Always run 93 octane gas. it ran perfectly....then SUDDENLY....it didn't. NO warning whatsoever!

The scary thing is....my wife's Rune actually did blow smoke and run rough in a parking lot for several seconds last summer. But then...just as suddenly as it had done it...it went back to running normal. And hers....thousands of miles and half a year later....has never done it again. But it makes ya' wonder....don't it???
 

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BBS VIN # for the Hogslayer

Hogslayer...my VIN is 1HFSC53364A000528 always burn 93 Octane gas per the gas pump... Had sudden BBS problem at around 7500 miles.
 
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