synt oil
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Well, DUH!! :? You should have done it at 10,000 km or sooner!!!
Enjoy the ride Hannibal!
Ken
Enjoy the ride Hannibal!
Ken
Hi bross,
j was using semi synt oil but j may assure you that today j found the engine working better than usual .
more with warm temperature j reduced a lot the noise changing from 1 to 2 and from 2 to 3, no more clang clang.
ciao
hannibal
j was using semi synt oil but j may assure you that today j found the engine working better than usual .
more with warm temperature j reduced a lot the noise changing from 1 to 2 and from 2 to 3, no more clang clang.
ciao
hannibal
Oil 1
OK everyone, I’ll give you my 2 cents worth.
What do I use? Mobil 1, 15W-50. Why? It is the best oil in the market and the range is much better than any 10W-30 or 20W-50 (both extremes recommended by Honda).
Oil serves many purposes in an engine, the three main purposes are: Lubricate, Heat Transfer and Contamination Transport to the filter where it can be removed.
There are 3 main types of oils:
1) Petroleum based. Good.
2) Petroleum/Synthetic blend. Better. Do NOT blend yourself.
3) Synthetic. The Best.
OK everyone, I’ll give you my 2 cents worth.
What do I use? Mobil 1, 15W-50. Why? It is the best oil in the market and the range is much better than any 10W-30 or 20W-50 (both extremes recommended by Honda).
Oil serves many purposes in an engine, the three main purposes are: Lubricate, Heat Transfer and Contamination Transport to the filter where it can be removed.
There are 3 main types of oils:
1) Petroleum based. Good.
2) Petroleum/Synthetic blend. Better. Do NOT blend yourself.
3) Synthetic. The Best.
Oil 2
There are many oil viscosities (normally referred to as the oil “weight”). It is defined as the amount of time it takes oil to flow through a specific orifice at a specific temperature. Multi-viscosity oils are now commonly used, like 15W-50, it means that at room temperature this oil has the viscosity of a 15 “weight” oil and at operating temperatures it has the viscosity of a 50 “weight” oil.
Oils should not be mixed. Sometimes it is possible for the additives of one oil to chemically interact with the additives of another oil causing the additive packages of both oils to precipitate in the form of a gel. The gel will, most likely, dissolve at operating temperature, however, while your engine is getting to operating temperature, you are running an oil that is NOT protecting your engine.
You can change oils back and forth every time to do a complete oil change, however, this practice should be avoided. It is always best to stick with one good quality oil.
There are many oil viscosities (normally referred to as the oil “weight”). It is defined as the amount of time it takes oil to flow through a specific orifice at a specific temperature. Multi-viscosity oils are now commonly used, like 15W-50, it means that at room temperature this oil has the viscosity of a 15 “weight” oil and at operating temperatures it has the viscosity of a 50 “weight” oil.
Oils should not be mixed. Sometimes it is possible for the additives of one oil to chemically interact with the additives of another oil causing the additive packages of both oils to precipitate in the form of a gel. The gel will, most likely, dissolve at operating temperature, however, while your engine is getting to operating temperature, you are running an oil that is NOT protecting your engine.
You can change oils back and forth every time to do a complete oil change, however, this practice should be avoided. It is always best to stick with one good quality oil.
Oil life can be extended considerably if it is kept clean of contaminants and running below maximum temperature. The reason we change oil is because the common filters used on engines are poor at best, their ability to remove solid contaminants is poor and with use the media migrates and the filter efficiency goes down the tube! Also, on an internal combustion engine there are other factors to be considered, like the pH (TAN & TBN) of the oil that is being “modified” as the engine “fires”.
How often to change oil and filter? The sooner the better, but that will depend on many factors like: driving habits, ambient temperature, dust in environment, quality of gas used and many others. This is what I do:
1,000 miles: engine oil and filter change
2,500 miles: engine oil and filter change and every 2,500 miles thereafter.
Also final drive oil change (Mobil 1 80W-90). Again at 5,000 miles and every 5,000 miles thereafter.
That’s it for now.
How often to change oil and filter? The sooner the better, but that will depend on many factors like: driving habits, ambient temperature, dust in environment, quality of gas used and many others. This is what I do:
1,000 miles: engine oil and filter change
2,500 miles: engine oil and filter change and every 2,500 miles thereafter.
Also final drive oil change (Mobil 1 80W-90). Again at 5,000 miles and every 5,000 miles thereafter.
That’s it for now.
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I ride 1,000 miles in 2 weeks. there is no way in heck I am changing oil every other Saturday.
We can all compare engine wear at 100,000 miles!
Ken (37,300 miles on my Rune baby)
We can all compare engine wear at 100,000 miles!
Ken (37,300 miles on my Rune baby)
Oil
Ken,
Perhaps I did not explain myself well.
What I meant to say, for engine: change at very first 1,000 miles to flush out all the metal from the break-in process, then again at 2,500 miles. From then on do it every 2,500 miles. This is cheap insurance.
For the final drive: Do the first change at 2,500 miles, again at 5,000 miles. From then on do it every 5,000 miles. What is the cost of a few ounces of oil? Also cheap insurance.
In the case of the engine, when you change the oil every 2,500 miles; the oil is still good, the problem is that the filter efficiency (Beat Ratio) starts to decay quickly, therefore, solid contaminants (ISO cleanliness code) in the oil are shooting through the roof.
Luis
Ken,
Perhaps I did not explain myself well.
What I meant to say, for engine: change at very first 1,000 miles to flush out all the metal from the break-in process, then again at 2,500 miles. From then on do it every 2,500 miles. This is cheap insurance.
For the final drive: Do the first change at 2,500 miles, again at 5,000 miles. From then on do it every 5,000 miles. What is the cost of a few ounces of oil? Also cheap insurance.
In the case of the engine, when you change the oil every 2,500 miles; the oil is still good, the problem is that the filter efficiency (Beat Ratio) starts to decay quickly, therefore, solid contaminants (ISO cleanliness code) in the oil are shooting through the roof.
Luis
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1,556 Posts
Luis,
Ok, now I understand.
I changed my oil 1st time at 500 miles (to Amsoil 10-40 motorcycle syn)
And do it currently every 4,000. The cost of oil changes really cuts into the 16 cents/mile==just like tire changes and the cost of gas.
Ken
Ok, now I understand.
I changed my oil 1st time at 500 miles (to Amsoil 10-40 motorcycle syn)
And do it currently every 4,000. The cost of oil changes really cuts into the 16 cents/mile==just like tire changes and the cost of gas.
Ken
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3,882 Posts
Synthetic oil does not need to be changed every 2500 miles; however, if for some reason it gives you peace of mind, I agree the peace of mind doesn't cost all that much. If you believe that the oil is good for at least 2 or 3 times that distance, but you are worried about the oil filter's effectiveness, just spin on a new filter every 2500 miles and top up the oil.
You may want to consider a conclusion reached by the study at http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stor ... -life.html :
Engine wear actually decreases as oil ages. This has also been substantiated in testing conducted by Ford Motor Co. and ConocoPhillips, and reported in SAE Technical Paper 2003-01-3119. What this means is that compulsive oil changers are actually causing more engine wear than the people who let their engine's oil get some age on it.
I change the synthetic and filter in my vehicles once a year whether they need it or not. That includes my Rune, CBX, and Aston Martin. On my last valve adjustment on the CBX, the intake shims were the same as they were when I did the first adjustment 24 years ago, and the valve clearance was still within spec. I don't think I'm getting any abnormal wear with the the once-a-year oil and filter change. I do admit that I don't ride the CBX as much as I used to, so its yearly mileage has dropped way off.
You may want to consider a conclusion reached by the study at http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stor ... -life.html :
Engine wear actually decreases as oil ages. This has also been substantiated in testing conducted by Ford Motor Co. and ConocoPhillips, and reported in SAE Technical Paper 2003-01-3119. What this means is that compulsive oil changers are actually causing more engine wear than the people who let their engine's oil get some age on it.
I change the synthetic and filter in my vehicles once a year whether they need it or not. That includes my Rune, CBX, and Aston Martin. On my last valve adjustment on the CBX, the intake shims were the same as they were when I did the first adjustment 24 years ago, and the valve clearance was still within spec. I don't think I'm getting any abnormal wear with the the once-a-year oil and filter change. I do admit that I don't ride the CBX as much as I used to, so its yearly mileage has dropped way off.
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I thought oil filters got "better" for a while as the fibers were clogged up.
The combustion by-products are dissolved, so they dont get filtered, they just use up the additive package.
Remember: I add Molybdenumdisulfide powder to my oils. The particle size is 1.5 microns, which pass through any filter, except the super duper ones.
Ken
The combustion by-products are dissolved, so they dont get filtered, they just use up the additive package.
Remember: I add Molybdenumdisulfide powder to my oils. The particle size is 1.5 microns, which pass through any filter, except the super duper ones.
Ken
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3,882 Posts
I also thought that as the oil-filter media starts to plug up, it filters better, but its flow resistance rises.
This also seems to be true with some air filters. K&N advises not to clean their air filters too often because they work better when they're dirty.
This also seems to be true with some air filters. K&N advises not to clean their air filters too often because they work better when they're dirty.
Oil
Ken and Al,
The best filters in the world are made by Pall Corporation; they make all kinds of filters.......including some that are used to filter out white blood cells from blood.....but they do not make filters for cars and bikes, they do make filters for large diesel engines like the ones used in trucks and tractors.....
Most filters out there, are made from cellulose (paper) or non-bonded media......what happens with these filters, is that as they trap particles, the pressure drop (delta P) throught them rises and the media migrates (moves), in essence, creating bigger pores (holes) in the media and in most cases releasing the trapped contaminants into the oil.
Ken and Al,
The best filters in the world are made by Pall Corporation; they make all kinds of filters.......including some that are used to filter out white blood cells from blood.....but they do not make filters for cars and bikes, they do make filters for large diesel engines like the ones used in trucks and tractors.....
Most filters out there, are made from cellulose (paper) or non-bonded media......what happens with these filters, is that as they trap particles, the pressure drop (delta P) throught them rises and the media migrates (moves), in essence, creating bigger pores (holes) in the media and in most cases releasing the trapped contaminants into the oil.
Oil
The problem is NOT the oil, but rather the filters; then, why don't I just change the filter and top the oil? Well, I have done a multitude of oil tests in my cars and bikes and found out that in the case of bikes the cleanliness level (ISO code) at around 2,500 miles shoots through the roof; if I just change the filter, I would leave dirty oil inside my bike!
In the case of cars, I found the same thing at around 5,000 miles.
A good oil analysis measures many things:
Water
Glycol
Additives
Silica (sand)
Solid contaminants, all the way down to 1 micron and up to 50 microns &
greater.
TAN, TBN
etc
The problem is NOT the oil, but rather the filters; then, why don't I just change the filter and top the oil? Well, I have done a multitude of oil tests in my cars and bikes and found out that in the case of bikes the cleanliness level (ISO code) at around 2,500 miles shoots through the roof; if I just change the filter, I would leave dirty oil inside my bike!
In the case of cars, I found the same thing at around 5,000 miles.
A good oil analysis measures many things:
Water
Glycol
Additives
Silica (sand)
Solid contaminants, all the way down to 1 micron and up to 50 microns &
greater.
TAN, TBN
etc
Joined
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3,882 Posts
Thanks for the info on filters.
I'm still not convinced that 2500-mile oil is dirty enough to change. The study I quoted earlier analyzed the oil every 1000 miles for 18,000 miles. They looked at the following parameters:
Aluminum
Chromium
Iron
Copper
Lead
Tin
Molybdenum
Nickel
Manganese
Silver
Titanium
Potassium
Boron
Silicon
Sodium
Calcium
Magnesium
Phosphorus
Zinc
Barium
Viscosity
Flashpoint
Fuel
Antifreeze
Water
Insolubles
TBN
Here is what they said about Mobil 1 at 10,000 miles:
"We're as shocked as almost anyone else that at 10,000 miles the oil is still good, the filter is still good, everything really looks just fine in there. 3,000-mile oil changes? Puh-leeze. Never again for us."
I'm not saying that an oil-change interval of 10,000 miles is a good idea. Of course, it would be a really bad idea during the warranty period. I expect that if I use synthetic oil and use half the Honda-recommended interval of 8000 miles (unlike Ken, this is about a year's worth of riding for me), my engine will last longer than I will.
I'm still not convinced that 2500-mile oil is dirty enough to change. The study I quoted earlier analyzed the oil every 1000 miles for 18,000 miles. They looked at the following parameters:
Aluminum
Chromium
Iron
Copper
Lead
Tin
Molybdenum
Nickel
Manganese
Silver
Titanium
Potassium
Boron
Silicon
Sodium
Calcium
Magnesium
Phosphorus
Zinc
Barium
Viscosity
Flashpoint
Fuel
Antifreeze
Water
Insolubles
TBN
Here is what they said about Mobil 1 at 10,000 miles:
"We're as shocked as almost anyone else that at 10,000 miles the oil is still good, the filter is still good, everything really looks just fine in there. 3,000-mile oil changes? Puh-leeze. Never again for us."
I'm not saying that an oil-change interval of 10,000 miles is a good idea. Of course, it would be a really bad idea during the warranty period. I expect that if I use synthetic oil and use half the Honda-recommended interval of 8000 miles (unlike Ken, this is about a year's worth of riding for me), my engine will last longer than I will.
Oil
Al,
Yes, there are tons of things that can be looked at when doing an oil analysis; normaly, they look at the additive package, wear metals, coolant, and air born contaminants (silicates or sands).
Problem is still the filter ..... I do not know what filter they used for their study ......
I own a Mercedes car, it comes from factory with Mobil 1; a good quality oil filter with very large dirt holding capacity and a computer that monitors many parameters ....... via the dash board the computer tells you when it is time to change the oil ..... my first oil change was at near 12,000 miles!
The Rune does not have a crank case that holds 9 qts of oil, it has a very small oil filter when compared to the one on my Benz ..... I chenge the oil every 2,500 miles based on past experience with motorcycle engines and oil analysis.
You do it once a year and that's perhaps OK for you.
Luis
Al,
Yes, there are tons of things that can be looked at when doing an oil analysis; normaly, they look at the additive package, wear metals, coolant, and air born contaminants (silicates or sands).
Problem is still the filter ..... I do not know what filter they used for their study ......
I own a Mercedes car, it comes from factory with Mobil 1; a good quality oil filter with very large dirt holding capacity and a computer that monitors many parameters ....... via the dash board the computer tells you when it is time to change the oil ..... my first oil change was at near 12,000 miles!
The Rune does not have a crank case that holds 9 qts of oil, it has a very small oil filter when compared to the one on my Benz ..... I chenge the oil every 2,500 miles based on past experience with motorcycle engines and oil analysis.
You do it once a year and that's perhaps OK for you.
Luis
oil
DC,
Yes, there are TONS of excellent synthetic oils out there; for the most part, they will all do an excellent job. I like Mobil-1 because I have used it successfully for years ..... it's just a matter of choice.
I also know that they use the right additive combo, including moly AND is ranked on top when it comes to oxidation.
But, you are right, probably any synthetic oil, changed regularly, will do a good job; much better than any pet based oil.
Luis
DC,
Yes, there are TONS of excellent synthetic oils out there; for the most part, they will all do an excellent job. I like Mobil-1 because I have used it successfully for years ..... it's just a matter of choice.
I also know that they use the right additive combo, including moly AND is ranked on top when it comes to oxidation.
But, you are right, probably any synthetic oil, changed regularly, will do a good job; much better than any pet based oil.
Luis
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